As part of the inaugural Bayes Alumni Forum held on 8 June, Dr Simone Krummaker (Associate Dean MSc Programmes and Associate Professor in Insurance, Bayes Business School) ran a breakout session featuring the career paths of two distinguished Bayes alumnae. Kartina Tahir Thomson (BSc Actuarial Science, 1998) and Kalpana Shah (BSc Actuarial Science, 1990) shed light on their professional journeys and respective roles as current and former Presidents of the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.
Q: In what context did you begin your career path?
Kalpana: Growing up, I went to a state school in London. As a woman who was good at Maths and as someone who was not white, you had to be resilient. That taught me that when you feel strongly about something, you should do something about it and continue doing it. The satisfaction comes from influencing change and seeing it become long-lasting. It’s difficult, but the feeling of having improved something or left a mark makes it worth it.
Q: Did you see yourself reaching your current position when you were younger?
Kalpana: No, I would never have seen myself here today. I used to live in the halls of residence that are now this building [n. Bunhill Row]. Coming back as President of the organisation seems almost nonsensical. I wouldn’t have even seen myself in a proper job back then. It wasn’t planned, but growing up in a paradox where societal values and family expectations clashed helped me find my niche.
Q: How do you manage to maintain a work-life balance?
Kalpana: Life isn’t about perfect balance all the time. It’s about recognising that sometimes work will take priority and other times family will. My cultural expectation was that family should always come first, but I let work balance things out at times. Now my family sometimes complains about not having enough time with me, but it’s all about making sacrifices for what you want and balancing your responsibilities.
Q: What part does personal interest play in your career?
Kalpana: For me, it’s always been about following my interests. I never had a plan like wanting to be a CEO in 20 years. I went where things interested me, and I’m self-aware of what I want to develop. Be brave, and even if you don’t see a clear path, show your value. For example, Google employs many actuaries now because someone showed them the value actuaries could bring.
Q: What path has your career taken up to the present?
Kalpana: My career wasn’t planned traditionally. I was interested in Maths and being on the front line where decisions were made. This led me through various roles, from retail to marketing to investment and actuarial work. I became a non-executive director and chair later on. I faced the fact that my career was about evolving interests and adding different experiences.
Kartina: Similar to Kalpana, I never had a firm plan. I needed a job during the Asian economic crisis and ended up at Prudential. My career choices have always been about interest and broadening my experience. I moved through roles at brokerage firms, the Bank of England, and eventually into non-executive roles.
Q: Have you faced challenges as woman and a person of colour?
Kartina: Yes, there are obvious hurdles. You often have to prove yourself more and take on riskier roles to get promotions or opportunities. This reality pushed me into wanting to influence organisational culture and make it better for others coming after me. It’s about using my position to make a difference in society.
Q: Have you seen positive signs of change in terms of diversity and inclusion?
Kartina: Progress is slow and requires continuous effort. It’s not just about changing minds but also addressing deep-rooted biases. We need to keep pushing for inclusivity and understanding that it’s an ongoing process that won’t unravel or solidify overnight. It might take another generation to see substantial change.
Q: What challenges are women faced with at more senior levels? How can they be addressed?
Kalpana: The struggle continues but just making it more normal for women to hold senior roles and making it visible helps for starters. Things have changed, though. I see more representation at senior levels, but it keeps dipping. It’s hard work for women; it’s not just about giving them the job, it’s about making it doable and something they want to do as well. I’m optimistic, but the job is not done.
Q: Was this also the case when you started out?
Kartina: When I first started, you just got on with it. You accepted that you wouldn’t have a head start, so you just excelled and probably had to work harder. But it’s great to have seen visible signs of see progress since. People are pulling things out if they’re not working right. To achieve equity, it’s not just about employers or individuals, but societal expectations too. If you are still expected to do the bulk of the home life, that’s not going to work. I’m very lucky as my husband does quite a lot, probably more than me. He’s with my daughters while I’m here today. Cultural changes are about becoming more supportive, but it’s still difficult.
Q: What has helped you address and/or overcome challenges throughout your career?
Kartina: Everyone will fail at some point. Accepting failure is important because if you fail and don’t get up again, you won’t move on. Having a growth mindset and learning from experience is crucial. For example, I was shortlisted for the president-elect election two years before I actually got it. I didn’t get it then, and it was hard. Reflecting on it, I probably didn’t give my all. When the opportunity came up again, I was better prepared and more resilient.
Q: What qualities do you consider essential for leadership roles?
Kalpana: Resilience is huge. People are becoming more respectful and conscious of others’ feelings, but there are still cultural differences. You must learn to carry on, despite unfairness. Resilience, especially in leadership roles, is crucial. You don’t want to be the first person running away. Learning to fail is also significant. I’m good at it, and it’s really helpful. Trying new things is important because it’s the only way to open doors to opportunities others might not think you’re capable of.
Q: What is your vision as President of the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries
Kartina: When I came on board, it was about making the Institute more relevant to different members, whether in this country or another, or working in different fields. It’s about understanding the needs of all members. We need to articulate a clear vision, offer benefits to our members, and uphold our duty to the public. At the heart of it all is creating a culture that serves its members, does a good duty for the public, and attracts the next generation. We need to make the profession attractive, allowing people to contribute to society and have a good lifestyle.
Q: What will you focus upon during your presidency?
Kartina: My focus will be on engagement because members are central to our organisation. Ensuring the sustainability of the Institute for the next generation is vital. This includes a long-term vision and adapting to changes like AI. It’s about enabling members to be brave and understand their worth, knowing their skills are transferable to various domains. Empowerment and engagement are key, especially listening to member feedback.
Q: How do you prepare future graduates to assume leadership roles like those you occupy?
Kalpana: A strong community is essential. Staying connected with peers, even internationally, is important. The link between material and practical application, as well as interdisciplinary connections, prepares graduates for real-world challenges. Encouraging them to engage beyond the core curriculum is powerful.
Q: What role did Bayes play in your development?
Kartina: Studying here allowed me to work and study in a setting that was unfamiliar but manageable. It provided a legitimate area where I felt valued. Being part of a community where both men and women are equally able to succeed is crucial. The combination of maths and business was beneficial, putting me with people who were relevant to my future. The environment gave me confidence for my career.
Q: What advice would you give young graduates about taking risks in their career?
Kartina: Risk is personal and situational. For some, even taking conventional roles or leadership positions is risky. My journey involved many risks, from working on a trading floor to moving to different roles and eventually becoming an actuary. Every step involved assessing and embracing risk. Life is too short, and as experts in quantifying risk, we shouldn’t be scared of it. Sometimes things go wrong, but enjoying the journey and being resilient is key.
Q: How can managers support their teams in the event of failure?
Kalpana: Managers are human too and often face their own fears, especially new managers who want everything to go right. It’s important to help them understand and manage failures. Companies are becoming more understanding. Remembering that managers are also learning and may not always have perfect answers can help. Empathy and support within teams are crucial.